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Tema: Russia has attacked Ukraine! |
18311 atsakymų
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Quote ( Allard Swart @ March 29th 2023,13:42:49 ) Dmitry I don't agree with the reasons given to invade.
Neither NATO's presence nor the conflict in eastern Ukraine called for Russia to go in for an all out war. They even knew that themselves because they decided to call it a 'Special Military Operation'.
Russia should have continued talks with Ukraine and tried to find a good solution for all parties. And the focus of those talks should have been 'How do we make eastern Ukraine a stable place where people can live in peace?' From a moral point of view it shouldn't matter if that part of the world is Ukrainian or Russian.
But that wasn't what Russia wanted out of this conflict, they wanted to gain new territory. Are you willing to accept this truth?
There were peace agreements called Minsk-1 and Minsk-2. It was an attempt by Russia to conduct peace negotiations with Ukraine on the formation of a stable peaceful situation. The Minsk agreements contained specific clauses that the Ukrainian government had to fulfill in order to secure the legal status of the new republics.
If you look again at recent history, then Russia managed to stop almost similar military confrontations: - Transnistria - Abkhazia - South Ossetia - Nagorno-Karabakh Recently managed to stop the revolution in Kazakhstan.
Therefore, Russia has both the experience and the desire to stop any military conflicts on its borders. The above republics remain independent and Russia does not annex them. Takle could well have happened to Donetsk and Lugansk.
The Minsk agreements were in effect for 8 years, according to which Ukraine had to decide on the status of Donetsk and Lugansk.
That did not happen.
The issue is not territory. The issue is the people who live in this area. Most of the people in these territories speak Russian and consider themselves Russians. So they decided to join Russia.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 29th 2023,13:20:11 ) Guys! May I suggest a 24hr pauze?!
Ok, pause 24 hours.
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Most regular people in countries don't care about stuff like 'the country is Russia' or 'the country is Ukraine'. The lives of the people living in the east of Ukraine have been ruined. What happened to them is not what they wanted.
My stance is that both parties can fault in the other. But all of that just obfuscates the core of the issue.
There was trouble in east Ukraine and the people there were suffering. Russia decided to invade and that decision has made lives worse for the people of Ukraine.
You can come up with excuses like the Minsk agreement or NATO or something else. But all of that is just talk and propaganda. Of which the West has some against Russia too. But all of that stuff is subjective.
What isnt, is that Russia invaded Ukraine and that because of that decision the people of Ukraine now suffer. This time Russia is on the wrong side of history. If they want to do what is right for the people of Ukraine, Russia should move out their troops. And then when their troops have left all of Ukraine, including the parts they say now belong to them, we should start working towards a peaceful solution. Where the well-being of the people of Ukraine is put first.
If a neutral party comes and brings peace to the region and the people then decide to join Russia, perhaps that would be alright.
I feel like there is no further point in going back and forth. So this will be my last post. Be free to reply to this one if you want. But I won't reply further, I feel like everything has really been said about the matter.
Point scoring between countries and imagined slights are not what really matters. I would ask you to think of the suffering of the people of Ukraine and everyone who is dying and how Russia could stop the conflict. The lives of people are important and a war like this should be avoided and stopped. And once it has, we should all come together and work towards a brighter future where all of us are brothers and sisters in peace.
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 29th 2023,09:49:07 )
When you say that "the country wanted to join NATO" - this is a lie.
The country itself, the people were not asked.
This is another propaganda bullshit from Russian books and brain washed Knyazev. People and no one else has been fed up of barbed wire and life under coomunists and Russian occupation.
Those people and noone else wanted out of Russian block. I live here, I know. My parents, their parents, our neighbours my clasmates, we all were living our lives in the world wher you could not say loud your opinion...unless you wanted to have ruined life.
What a relief in 1989!!! Free elections after more than 40 years !!!
We all wanted out! Cut the barbed wires on border. To have a free press, access to all informations without censorship (there was no internet that time) and send occupying army (which oocupied Czechoslovakia since 1968) and arrogant and dangerous communists out of power finaly.
We did...and to avoid what has happened to Ukraine in the future, we hace VOLUNTARILY joined NATO and later on EU... VOLUNTARILY
Learn to live with this you LYING scumbag Knyazev https://www.expats.cz/czech-news/article/poll-czech-support-...
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 28th 2023,22:58:38 ) There has already been a similar story in the recent history of Russia.
Two wars in Chechnya.
When Chechnya was given independence from an ordinary Caucasian republic, it turned into a bunch of drug dealers, weapons and people.
When terrorist attacks began in Moscow, they blew up houses, hospitals, schools, theaters.
Russia began to eradicate terrorists in Chechnya.
True, the West called them "rebels".
And then everyone told us that the proud Chechen people would never forget how a Russian soldier killed freedom-loving Chechens.
That Chechen cities will always be ruins.
Look at the footage from Chechen cities now.
Chechnya is a republic that fully supports the policies of Putin (who just ended the Chechen war).
Therefore, everything is not as it seems now.
Its your story but there is another story that all is about oil. In these war, we already saw Poutine in action, and it remind us the actual war in Ukraine (as in Syria too.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 29th 2023,11:46:28 ) There are clear Forum rules in place;
9.1 Forums
Any user, who is registered and approved by the administrators, is entitled to use the forums. The official language of the forums is English. Other languages may be spoken in the foreign language forums only. The rules for the forum are:
• No offensive, rude or discriminatory language
• No insulting or harassment of other managers
• No religious, political or otherwise inappropriate material
• No discussions related to illegal distribution or use of copyrighted material
• No advertisements (unless previously approved by the GPRO Crew)
• No posting of referral links of any kind
• Do not attempt to circumvent posting about, or linking to, blacklisted sites
• No revealing detailed information about the game
• Do not post private messages on the forums without prior consent of the sender
• Do not post on behalf of other managers - all are free to make their own posts unless currently banned from a thread or the full forum, and if they are banned their posts are not permitted, even through another party
• No blatant posting of off topic material in threads
• Post threads in the appropriate forum
• Keep the Newbie Forum as factually accurate as possible and always on topic
• Individual forums (such as Newbie, Team Recruitment and Suggestion) have their own specific guidelines/rules which can be found at the top of the list when these forums are viewed so please familiarize yourself with these before posting in these forums
• No double account accusations or discussion of actual or perceived double accounts, past or present (if you have suspicions of a double account, contact Mr Shadow directly)
• Backseat modding is not allowed; do not reprimand fellow managers for their forum behavior and if you feel a forum rule was broken, consult a mod
• No forum spamming or pointless posts
• Use good forum etiquette including, but not limited to, avoiding shouting (using all capitals) and avoiding consecutive posts when an edit is suitable
• Always follow instructions given to you by any member of the Crew with regards to forum and mailbox behavior
• The moderator's decision is final
As a well seasoned player, you would/should be very aware of these rules, and abide by them
Easy to check here > /gb/GPRORules.asp#91-forumsOne of the pages every new player is directed too upon their first request for support! But you forget one rule : "This topic is loosely moderated due to its nature. If you read or post in it you accept it is a sensitive topic with opposing and sometimes harsh views. Forum moderators cannot be the judge in who is right or wrong or who is lying or telling the truth. Reader discretion is advised! "
Its not as you seems to think something made against the GPRO Rule. We can be agree or not with your post, but you have to be well aware that what you want to do is to change the GPRO decision. So the argument in favor of the GPRO rule is not really an argument.
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Quote ( Joel Trekane @ March 29th 2023,20:15:43 ) So the argument in favor of the GPRO rule is not really an argument I could easily argue against this POV
As for
"This topic is loosely moderated due to its nature. If you read or post in it you accept it is a sensitive topic with opposing and sometimes harsh views. Forum moderators cannot be the judge in who is right or wrong or who is lying or telling the truth. Reader discretion is advised! " This statement implies that there's at least some modderation applied. If not for the content, which I can understand as it is hard to mod such, at least general Forum behavior could very well be addressed. However, I have not seen anything being moderated in this thread (I could have missed it though) and there were some really bad things posted!
Things like offensive, rude, discriminatory language, insulting or harassment of other managers, religious, political or otherwise inappropriate material are not specifically related to content, but merely to choice of words and general conduct! In my POV, it's this aspect where this thread derailed and to which all participants should reset their own behavior. Discussion is good, but the playing the blame game and going out of bounds doing so, is not particularly the best form of discussing things ...
For that specific reset, I kindly requested all to take a break and rethink options ....
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⚡️Putin undermined the authority of the President of China, Xi Jinping, by announcing the deployment of nuclear weapons on the territory of Belarus, — Bloomberg.
In a joint statement, Xi Jinping and Putin announced that all nuclear powers should refrain from deploying nuclear weapons abroad.
However, a few days later, the President of the Russian Federation announced plans to send tactical nuclear weapons to Belarus, which negatively affected China's position as a mediator in the conflict.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 29th 2023,21:38:49 ) POV Just to be sure : A POV : means an argument ? Ok sorry, i see it now what it means. But you know, if we make a pause and then restart, nothing will change, we just made a pause. My point of view (so POV ok) is this threat is for Ukrainien to tell us from inside what is going on, but it is not often as it goes that way. We have a war in Europe, and ok some can say why not speaking about all other war in the world, but we have a war in Europe, its important and even if its a game (and of course, whatever we can say here, nothing will change), its important to have a liberty space for Ukrainien.
What concern me too, its that now Ihor stoped the game. I hope he will return, but the damage is done as we can say it.
Probably, one think important to change in this topic is to not derive with subject with has nothing to do with the war in Ukraine. Or not to respond when someone derive because in fact, modo are not here so its only us which can change the way this topic evolve.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 29th 2023,21:38:49 ) For that specific reset, I kindly requested all to take a break and rethink options ....
the silent majority is the biggest problem of this world. Put this thread on ignore Neils, if you feel this subject is not sensitive enough for you. This is not LGBT parade... there is a war and people are dying.
liars and murders deserve no tolerance
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🙏🇵🇹Portugal handed over three Leopard 2A6 tanks to Ukraine — Ministry of Defense.
"Leopard tanks donated by Portugal are already in Ukraine. Portugal continues to support Ukrainian resistance to the illegal invasion of Russia"
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Quote ( Joel Trekane @ March 29th 2023,22:25:02 ) What concern me too, its that now Ihor stoped the game. I hope he will return, but the damage is done as we can say it. I'll take the blame for my choice of words on the poll. It could have been worded better, in hindsight, that would be fair feedback. However, the poll was never intended to actually shut down the topic.
My true intend was to point out the "non-political-talks" as per game rules in the first place! Secondly, as the choice was made to let the topic exist, then there's a responsibility to keep things within bounds by modding it, at least from my POV. Not as per content as stated in the disclaimer, but on code of conduct it could and should have/be! The incorrect behavior expressed in so many posts, in so many ways, it's just way beyond Forum rules!
I would like to get back to where this topic can be discussed as any proper discussion should be performed, as properly functioning adults. If you read back to said OP (Opening Post) you'll see that's what I addressed, nothing else. For sake of a open for all poll, suggestions to both ends should be made available and I did, albeit the wording could have been better as I already agreed to.
Ihor stepping away is also hurtful to me, it was never my intend! I can understand where the poll might have been the final drop to overflow his bucket, but many other things have been and still are going on in his life, specifically due to this war. On the poll he focused on 3 words only, clearly more was stated. His stepping away from this game and this topic can hardly be pinned on only these 3 words though ... I will not take the blame for that!
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 29th 2023,10:13:14 ) Russia clearly said:
Russia is very worried that so many NATO countries have appeared around its borders.
Russia is too stupid or too simple or too drunk to ask itself, why does this happen. Dumb whining and blaming others does not help. Those countries are not bribed, they are not forced to do so like your fat red neck politicians used to say and you parrot it here
Those countries care a shit about what Russia is "worried" about, because they have this miserable historical experience and "luck" to have Russia as a neighbourgh or occupant. It is those countries who are worried. And they have full right to be worried. While there is no historial evidence of Czech or Slovak or Estoonian or Finnish plans to attack Russia, there is historical experience of just a contrary.
So they VOLUNTARILY join NATO.
If Russsia behaves as a good supportive "brother" with all its richies in the means of raw materials and other sources...and not like drunk imperialistic retard, there would be no need to have NATO alliance "around its borders", there would be no current Finlnad and Sweden issue as well...
Blame only yourself, your stupid, pervert and sick behaviour...In your foreign affairs policy as well as here on this forum.
P.S. I hardly remember one country of Europe, Knyazev, which you did not wanted to nuke in this topic within last year. And in your sick pervert mind you are determined that those countries deserve that because they have not learnt yet to love Russia... you have the name Russophobia for it.
"Russia clearly said..." You are a joke Knyazev.
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Quote ( Tomas Dederle @ March 30th 2023,07:57:36 ) Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 29th 2023,10:13:14 )
Russia clearly said:
Russia is very worried that so many NATO countries have appeared around its borders.
Russia is too stupid or too simple or too drunk to ask itself, why does this happen. Dumb whining and blaming others does not help. Those countries are not bribed, they are not forced to do so like your fat red neck politicians used to say and you parrot it here
Those countries care a shit about what Russia is "worried" about, because they have this miserable historical experience and "luck" to have Russia as a neighbourgh or occupant. It is those countries who are worried. And they have full right to be worried. While there is no historial evidence of Czech or Slovak or Estoonian or Finnish plans to attack Russia, there is historical experience of just a contrary.
So they VOLUNTARILY join NATO.
If Russsia behaves as a good supportive "brother" with all its richies in the means of raw materials and other sources...and not like drunk imperialistic retard, there would be no need to have NATO alliance "around its borders", there would be no current Finlnad and Sweden issue as well...
Blame only yourself, your stupid, pervert and sick behaviour...In your foreign affairs policy as well as here on this forum.
P.S. I hardly remember one country of Europe, Knyazev, which you did not wanted to nuke in this topic within last year. And in your sick pervert mind you are determined that those countries deserve that because they have not learnt yet to love Russia... you have the name Russophobia for it.
"Russia clearly said..." You are a joke Knyazev.
I have seen the error of my ways…..sticking up to this sick bastard on the forum just gives him the oxygen he needs. I will take my leave as Ihor did from this forum, it isn’t achieving anything. Absolute waste of time, for everybody- Dumbfuck talks about discussion, it isn’t a discussion and hasn’t been fir a long long time… his threats are laughable so I won’t be reading this thread anymore either…. Just trust in our uncensored news ! Those carrying on the fight against Dimmy Dimwit Dumbfuck, good luck, he is a cunt and I fucking hate Russia for him and his half breed poison dwarf leader. I hope they rot in hell.
Praying for you Ukraine :) Long live Ukraine……. Fuck the Motherfuckerland !
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It is a pity that not everyone joined the pause of 24 hours. But this is a personal decision for everyone. This decision characterizes them.
Quote ( Allard Swart @ March 29th 2023,15:33:27 ) You can come up with excuses like the Minsk agreement or NATO or something else. But all of that is just talk and propaganda. Of which the West has some against Russia too. But all of that stuff is subjective.
You talk about possible peace and tranquility, but it was the Minsk agreements that were created to stop the hostilities. And they stopped them.
Any war will end with some Agreements. Are you going to take them as excuses too? So we will fight to the last man on earth?
Quote ( Allard Swart @ March 29th 2023,15:33:27 ) is that Russia invaded Ukraine
Russia is now at war on its own territory. I understand that it is very difficult to refuse to understand the opposing arguments. Sometimes you get the feeling that you are talking to a person who says that the earth is flat. You give him arguments and evidence. And he has one answer - "I see that the earth is flat, not round." Moreover, the facts and evidence presented are not refuted in any way, they do not even try to study them. Well, ok, everyone can have an opinion that the earth is round.
Quote ( Allard Swart @ March 29th 2023,15:33:27 ) If a neutral party comes and brings peace to the region
Of course it will be. Everything ends sometime.
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Quote ( Tomas Dederle @ March 29th 2023,16:26:49 ) We did..
You didn't. This was done without you. In 1997, only 37% of the population supported the entry of the Czech Republic into NATO.
The decision to join was taken by the government and parliament. The people didn't ask. As always in a democratic and free society.
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Quote ( Joel Trekane @ March 29th 2023,19:49:10 ) In these war, we already saw Poutine in action, and it remind us the actual war in Ukraine (as in Syria too.
In Syria, we prevented Bashar al-Assad from repeating the path of Hussein and Gaddafi. NATO wanted exactly this, didn't it? Syria has retained its sovereignty and is now recognized by many Asian countries.
What did the US do with Iraq and Libya?
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Quote ( Tomas Dederle @ March 30th 2023,07:57:36 ) Those countries care a shit about what Russia is "worried" about
It is from this attitude that a lot of conflicts begin.
When they don't want to listen to other words and don't give a shit about the opinions of others.
Don't want to hear the words? This is your choice.
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Quote ( Niels Van Heijster @ March 29th 2023,21:38:49 ) For that specific reset, I kindly requested all to take a break and rethink options ....
I propose to take a break in new posts until the end of the voting on Nils's post, until April 23, 2023.
It is possible that after the end of the voting, the administration of the GPRO will decide on the fate of this branch.
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Knyazev you are a joke.. Toxic lying joke...
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Every post of knyazev includes lie, dishonest, twisted truth or inherrited aggression.....pattern of Russian. That is why do you have nato on your borders knyazev. Generation of 50+ will never trust Russia after experience from 1968-1988...younger people were willing more And more to digest there is a logic to cooperate witth Russia on broader level.. And it worked.. UNTIL THE TIME YOU PROVED THEM WRONG AGAIN. Russia has created another Generation Who will never trust. Call it a russophobia..
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And sorry knyazev, if you write here you suggest to piss on soffa and Niels accepts... It is business of you two..enjoy the odeur of your soffa and avoid the Very Russian way of judging the characteer of people Who appear to have no appetite to join your aliance... It seems it shows also charakter of ukrainians, they do not support your hunger for their Lands, right? . And your Very nazí denial of right for existence of ukrainians and their country, right? Very bad characteer they have.. They decide on their own..
They should listen, correct? Othrerwise it is their fault you Come to invide them, to kill them, correct? They have no right to not listen, correct? Othrerwise you go after them..
Ukraine's big problem is they Are not in NATO.. And all countries around Russia would share sooner or later the same fate....rhetoric of you and your politicians proves you still have the same Dreams you had when you signed the pact with Hitler About partition of europe...
We are happy to be in NATO... Because that is the Only entity Russia feels scaared of.. Nato is our scarecrow.. You can whine as much as you can.. But united we stand.. And we Will not listen to your whining... So stop your threatening... Nobody stands behind you.. Even belarus will run hapilly away from you... Once they get rid of tzar Lukašenko and his repressive regime supported by Kremlin..
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And another Russian way of twisting the facts "joining NATO was decisiin of goverment and parlament.. So it was not decision n od people"
Knyazev, we do not live Russian model. In our country there are free elections, and it is people Who vote members of parlament... And strongest coallition in parlament creates the goverment.. Thus some explanatiin About the democracy you like to talk About but have no clue About...
The other fact is there was no law About referendum ready and approved ať that time. So there was no other option that time. Joining EU was already another story...
Btw what was in Russia the result of referendum About war against ukraine.. And result of referendum About mobilozation?
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@Tomas Dederle (A50) not sure what you're state of mind is today, but I have a hard time to understand what your intend is with ...
Quote ( Tomas Dederle @ March 30th 2023,16:30:40 ) ... and Niels accepts.. There's hardly anything written by DK that I agree to!
I would appreciate it if you did not use my name in a way that's clearly incorrect!
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I feel like I need to write a few more explanatory words as I didn't expect to read what I've read since I wrote my post (two, actually, in different threads).
All my life I have believed and continue to believe that a person acts of his own free will - in the event that he is the cause of his own actions and he has alternatives to these actions.
Therefore, although my words about leaving were somewhat emotional, it is obvious that both conditions that I described above were met. Therefore, I want to emphasize that Niels is in no way responsible for my departure, this is my decision and I am already old enough to weigh what I say and, especially, write, even under the pressure of emotions. The last thing I would like to see in this thread is how people who are united in support of Ukraine have disagreements because of my not very accurate message.
Yes, I do not understand the wording of one of the points of the survey and, in principle, I do not agree with the very fact of voting in which there is a clause on "closing the topic". Since the decision that it should exist, performing certain functions, was made as an exception , and, as I understand it, due to the consensus of the site management.
In this regard, I have a question for this very management - what is the goal you are pursuing when, in fact, you stop moderating this topic from some moment of its existence?
In my understanding (and I'm not alone in it), "weak moderation" means at least: 1. Stopping insults, racism, discrimination, etc. 2. Stopping double messages - this will force anyone who communicates here to choose the materials that are worth sharing and make it unlikely that important points in communication will be "overwritten" by spam.
As for the rest - who is right, who is not - the community is able to figure it out on its own. Therefore, until this branch is guaranteed "weak moderation" by the game management (according to the rules that the management deems necessary), I personally see no reason to continue our discussions, which take a lot of time and are unsatisfactory from the providing perspective of constructive dialogue.
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Not only in discussions, but even in military conflicts, there are rules that must be observed by both sides.
I am ready to accept and abide by any rules that will be imposed on this thread. Of course, subject to the equal implementation of these rules by all participants in the discussion.
Since the administration will have to control the implementation of the moderation rules, only the administration has the right to determine the likely rules for such discussion.
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Quote ( Dmitry Knyazev @ March 30th 2023,19:08:56 ) Not only in discussions, but even in military conflicts, there are rules that must be observed by both sides.
I am ready to accept and abide by any rules that will be imposed on this thread. Of course, subject to the equal implementation of these rules by all participants in the discussion.
Since the administration will have to control the implementation of the moderation rules, only the administration has the right to determine the likely rules for such discussion.
Hypocrite !
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War in Ukraine. Total estimated losses of the Russian occupying forces for 400 days (30.03.23) ~172900 (+560) In personnel 306 Airplanes 291 Helicopters 3610(+1) Tanks 6974(+8) BBM 2671(+12) Artillery systems 278(+1) Air defense means 526 RSZV 5518(+11) Automotive equipment and tanks with PMM 18 Ships and boats 2239 Operational-tactical UAVs 911 Cruise missiles
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Russia has already killed 466 children in the war against Ukraine
▪️As of the morning of March 30, 2023, more than 1,409 children were injured in Ukraine: 466 children died and more than 943 were injured of various degrees of severity.
▪️On March 29, a 16-year-old boy died as a result of a car detonation on an enemy mine in Barvinkovo, Kharkiv region.
▪️👧🏻🧒🏻 "Children of War" (https://childrenofwar.gov.ua/) is a platform where you can report and find all information about children who suffered as a result of the Russian Federation's war against Ukraine.
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My proposal to stop posts before the end of the voting was not heard. OK.
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