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Tema: Make things better for newcomers. To make more new players hooked |
23 respuestas
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#1 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 21:29:44
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The problem to solve:
The problem for newcomers is that every newcomer that join the game late, will start with a very inferior driver.
This lead to races with players being lapped 3 or 4 times in a race. Even lapped 7 times. I was a newcomer, and I know how boring and frustrating it is. Even to know that you cannot have fun until the next Season, it makes your first experience with the game to be not good.
I make two possible suggestion to make things funnier for newcomers:
Option 1: That every newcomer should be able to hire a driver that is at a "correct" level, depending on the top 5 drivers of his group.
Option 2: That every newcomer will have a screen pop-up, telling them that they can upgrade their driver (many times) until they reach a "correct" level.
This will also lead to funnier races. I would go as far as allowing that for those that make a game reset as well. And this option only available on Rookie.
The goal: The aim of this is to make things more fun for newcomers and to hook them up, to have a higher rate of new players incoming.
What do you think? It would be better for Rookies to answer.
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#2 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 21:33:42
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Anyone that gets into the game can get a good driver in their first ever race, it doesn't require the OA to be very high!
A 110 OA driver can be worse than an 85 OA driver, for example. Figuring out what makes a driver good is part of the experience of being a newcomer, but it's certainly not impossible to get a good driver at the start of your career, even if a bit by accident!!!
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#3 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 21:41:01
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My first driver was pretty decent. Shame about the manager :(
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#4 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 22:21:00
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Quote ( Stuart Foster @ May 30th 2023,21:41:01 ) My first driver was pretty decent. Shame about the manager :(
Sounds like you had the same problem I had. My first driver was decent but his manager, well lets just say he still don't know jack.
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#5 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 22:23:10
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My first driver spent most of his life in pro later on
And I sacked him ;)
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#6 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 22:26:12
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There's somethings thay may help you, like join ia a team and look for a mentor.
This will help you to get a good driver.
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#7 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 22:43:25
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Quote ( Douglas Pacheco @ May 30th 2023,22:26:12 ) There's somethings thay may help you, like join ia a team and look for a mentor.
This will help you to get a good driver.
The mentor does other things, not say the right driver.
@Daniel Bistman (R9) i think that you must understand the kind of game is this, i mean here there isnt a manual to follow, here you are free to do what do you want.
This is funny.
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#8 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 22:55:11 (última edición el 30-May-2023, 23:09:41 por Jay De Snoo)
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Quote ( Daniel Bistman @ May 30th 2023,21:29:44 ) The problem to solve:
The problem for newcomers is that every newcomer that join the game late, will start with a very inferior driver.
This lead to races with players being lapped 3 or 4 times in a race. Even lapped 7 times. I was a newcomer, and I know how boring and frustrating it is. Even to know that you cannot have fun until the next Season, it makes your first experience with the game to be not good.
I make two possible suggestion to make things funnier for newcomers:
Option 1: That every newcomer should be able to hire a driver that is at a "correct" level, depending on the top 5 drivers of his group.
Option 2: That every newcomer will have a screen pop-up, telling them that they can upgrade their driver (many times) until they reach a "correct" level.
This will also lead to funnier races. I would go as far as allowing that for those that make a game reset as well. And this option only available on Rookie.
The goal: The aim of this is to make things more fun for newcomers and to hook them up, to have a higher rate of new players incoming.
What do you think? It would be better for Rookies to answer.
The primarily problem with newcomers - especially nowadays with the apps - is that they don't read the rules, guidelines, wiki's (ALL part of the game) and I don't know what available currently, of which most wasn't 30-40 seasons ago let alone at the very start of the game. Hence they don't know what options they have.
One can totally hire a new driver (dependant on which day of the week one joins, sometimes even time of joining since markets are Tuesday and Thursday at set times) before their 1st race and DEFINITELY before their 2nd race!
I'm sorry, nothing personal but being a translator I know how much effort from game management is put into accomodating newcommers - even more so for the apps.
IF newcommers would just read.... This isn't a plug and play game... Maybe that should be more clear and emphasized on, I acknowledge!
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#9 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 23:14:14
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#10 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 23:23:40
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I know all that, what I say is not for the good of myself, but for the good of the game. I am already having fun, I already know the game and this suggestion is not for my benefit.
I care for this beautiful game, sadly see the super high dropout rate of newcomers.
I strongly believe there are things that the developer team can do to increase their $$Income$$
To increase the recruitment ratio and reduce desertion rates, I already recommended:
1) a Demo is needed.
2) That newcomers recruit higher level Drivers.
We are competing at Level OA = 109 in Rookie at this stage of the Season.
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Quote ( Marko Stojaović @ May 30th 2023,23:14:14 ) Daniel Bistman (R9) Your driver is 105 ovr.
How much would be enough...
LOL It is very fun to see newcomers put Risk levels of 60 on first races and give great spectacle for the crowds.
:)
OA = 109 for Newcomers would give great spectacle for the crowd, the TV and sponsors.
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#12 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 23:33:34
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The best driver in the game won't help you if you get your strategy wrong.
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Quote ( Daniel Bistman @ May 30th 2023,23:23:40 ) We are competing at Level OA = 109 in Rookie at this stage of the Season.
There is a specific attribute of a driver that has the ability to influence the OA greatly so you shouldn't be too perturbed by this (what I mean here is thinking the gap from the 85 limit to sign a driver).. I mean, in amateur 150+ OA is quite often seen, and keep in mind that the OA limit to extend contracts here is 110, you can see even more clearly then about the impact this attribute can have on the OA. Its quite a decent size number.
Your notice of 109, you can already see it can easily be more than 10... You shouldn't necessarily conclude this number reflects with 100% accuracy his ability/speed. For sure, this attribute will help it, but its an attribute that lends itself more to the complexities of extending the contract of the driver and the management aspect of his OA in order to do so. :)
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#14 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 23:45:12
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There is a specific attribute of a driver that has the ability to influence the OA greatly so you shouldn't be too perturbed by this (what I mean here is thinking the gap from the 85 limit to sign a driver).. I mean, in amateur 150+ OA is quite often seen, and keep in mind that the OA limit to extend contracts here is 110, you can see even more clearly then about the impact this attribute can have on the OA. Its quite a decent size number.
Your notice of 109, you can already see it can easily be more than 10... You shouldn't necessarily conclude this number reflects with 100% accuracy his ability/speed. For sure, this attribute will help it, but its an attribute that lends itself more to the complexities of extending the contract of the driver and the management aspect of his OA in order to do so. :)
This is all true brother. But I think many of the players here are making a debate for the minor details (like what OA is enough).
Straight into the point: Would this suggestion give a better player experience for newcomers? I think so, and I think it will increase the recruit ratio. And It will be funnier in general even for all in the Rookie Roster.
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#15 Publicado el 30-May-2023, 23:50:46
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1 month here and you got it all figured out.
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Quote ( Daniel Bistman @ May 30th 2023,23:45:12 ) It will be funnier in general even for all in the Rookie Roster
I disagree only because the game does a good job of following principally the same structure from top to bottom. Rookie is really only different because of the reset. If the drivers in rookie had bloated OA's, then they would quickly jump to levels that would make them not signable in the future for amateur managers when they go back to the market.
You should think of the game as this large pyramid where if one chink is exaggerated or changed significantly then it will have ramifications up the ladder. Drivers arn't just manufactured. Amateur relies on rookies losing drivers or ditching them in order to develop them further. The same thing in Pro that relies on amateurs losing drivers or ditching them. If the game mechanics are changed at the bottom tier, you would basically wipe out a very large chunk of the driver market in amateur in a not too distant future season.
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You should think of the game as this large pyramid where if one chink is exaggerated or changed significantly then ...
That is a very good theory of a side effect. Certainly, every Developer's decision will have ramifications... and did have ramifications in the past.
In this case, I do not see it as a sufficient "objection" because the other levels of the pyramid will take their decission with what Drivers they have at hand.
Every rookie has the power to ruin a Great Prospect, by wrong training choices. Yet, the great influx of Newcomers (lastly) did not ruin the game, it can change the Driver market, but does not ruin the game.
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#18 Publicado el 31-May-2023, 00:14:36
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Quote ( Daniel Bistman @ May 31st 2023,00:04:13 ) the other levels of the pyramid will take their decission with what Drivers they have at hand.
I'm not sure you fully understood the consequences of an action like your suggestion. That isn't to bash the idea behind it, because I can see why you would think it to be a good idea. If every new rookie is given a 109 OA driver, what becomes of the amateur market? You do realise new drivers are not added to the markets above rookie from creation? Drivers here are what are left behind / contract terminated / ended / failed resign from Rookie. The same occurs in Pro, Master, Elite at each step.
The devs don't create drivers at each level of the game. it's the managers who develop drivers from the bottom to top. The OA boundaries simply would not cope with the change you propose, and thus cause an eventual collapse of the game as drivers lost in rookie would not be signable and become immediately obsolete for the rest of their GPRO career. Amateurs would then sign lower OA drivers and you end up with a very imbalanced market where you'd have worse drivers in Amateur than Rookie.
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#19 Publicado el 31-May-2023, 00:16:51 (última edición el 31-May-2023, 00:30:06 por Jay De Snoo)
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Quote ( Daniel Bistman @ May 30th 2023,23:23:40 ) I already know the game and this suggestion is not for my benefit.
Funny, since there are managers that started season 1 race 1 that are still learning... Even previous Elite champs that still don't know all ins and outs..
Quote ( Daniel Bistman @ May 30th 2023,23:23:40 ) We are competing at Level OA = 109 in Rookie at this stage of the Season.
Well, since you 'know the game' by now you obviously know OA means something between absolutely nothing and monkeyballs; it's just an accumilation of skills, yet an arbitrary game value for a division to hire a driver.
For the record: an OA <85 driver can be massively better than one of OA 109 dependant on those skills.
Huge tip: Use matrix inversion and multiplication from ANY driver market (with 10 randomly selected drivers) to learn something on how OA is build up. That's just the 1st and most simple step of learning this game... (and the results won't be very accurate, just provides an idea)
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I'm not sure you fully understood the consequences of an action like your suggestion.
Certainly I am new. I agree I don't understand the full consequence.
But if you give them a OA=95 more drivers will be added to the Amateur Market. :)
Also, Option 2 of my initial post is that Necomers can train the Drivers up to the "correct" level. Wich has the effect to increase amount of Drivers for the Amateur market.
All depend on the details, the effect will depend on the decision the Developer Team take. The way they implement something.
The Developer Team has the power to create Abundance or Shortages, it's not any singular or particular idea. (they spam drivers for example, they do anything)
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#21 Publicado el 31-May-2023, 01:47:10
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There's a couple of interesting points raised in here:
1) Driver OA can be misleading for a new player who will think high OA = Good. This is definitly not the case!
2) Similarly, someone having a high Driver OA will scare Rookies who think other people have an unbelivable driver that they were able to train and such OA levels cannot be reached by them in the near future - and a lot of times these high OA drivers do end up being fast as well (because the managers correctly picked good drivers) so it further cements the misconception that high OA = Good.
3) Rookies are very tempted to push high CT when it's not advisable to do so; and the thinking is that people in Amateur or such will be running such high risks.
This is all due to misinformation, and it is true that this information is available in tutorials and the forums. But what is also true is that the tutorial is mega boring. And a boring tutorial will lead people to not read the tutorial, leading to situations such as this.
So regarding comments like these:
Quote ( Jay De Snoo @ May 30th 2023,22:55:11 )
The primarily problem with newcomers - especially nowadays with the apps - is that they don't read the rules, guidelines, wiki's (ALL part of the game) and I don't know what available currently, of which most wasn't 30-40 seasons ago let alone at the very start of the game. Hence they don't know what options they have.
While yes, this is entirely true, and yes, you can argue that people in the past did not mind about the tutorial, the truth is that as of now, the tutorial is extremely old-fashioned and pushes away the new players (because like it or not, it is boring. It just is!!!).
Think of it as new students starting a subject and the difference being between having a really boring teacher and a really interesting teacher. With the boring teacher most kids will likely hate the subject and not care much about it, but with the interesting teacher a lot of them will be a lot more interesting in exploring it. It's as much about the player as it is about the game IMO.
Some level of live-guidance is needed. If you read the tutorials you'll notice that they all say what things do and are (even if vaguely) but there's no actual advice. Things like "A driver's OA does not determine the driver's actual skill!!!" or something resembling that is ever showed on the tutorial.
An introductory tutorial with actual engagement could increase understanding between new players of what makes a driver good or not. A simple introductory race where you do a practice lap with a decent 85 OA driver and an horrid 110 OA driver and seeing that the laptimes are vastly different and better for the 85 OA driver would be an extremely effective way of showing that a driver with high OA doesn't mean anything. You could even leave hints of what might be good or not, if you carefully pick the attributes of each drivers a manager with good eyes will spot some trends and try it out on their own driver.
Regarding the CT issue, how impractical would it be to set a limit of 20 CT in Rookie or so? It would force managers to get actual drivers and get them prepared better for Amateur as they didn't use a ridiculous amount of CT + terrible driver to promote. There might be severe downsides which I'm not really seeing at the moment besides perhaps removing some of the liberty away from the managers. To be fair you could make things a lot simpler in Rookie, like allow a maximum of L5 parts or decrease the cost of testing, etc. Rookie nowadays is more about exploration than being fast so we should probably encourage that!
Daniel, I love your attitude towards the game of not being afraid of showing your opinion in order to improve the game even though you're relativitly new. Your opinions allow us to open topics which do require some light. I've always been adamant that the tutorial needs a revamp and I'm always happy to talk about that when there's the chance!
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#22 Publicado el 31-May-2023, 02:05:39
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Hii, as a new player going through my first season, I think that a more in depth tutorial is something that would help rookies 100% and also it is hard for someone to pick up a game and jump into reading wikis (I agree it's something that's important to move forward as a player and must be done, though it's hard to do so in the first few days of starting any game) and all the related material right then and there, most new players will almost always just play untill they find a roadblock then research what they need when they realise they need more imforman, not much else you can do to make them read.
I think the mentoring system is something that is very good and honestly if a rookie uses a mentor 99% of the problems discussed here probably don't happen because the mentors do a good job in guiding you through your first week or 2
Just to summarise a better in game tutorial to explain the more important parts of the game that could ruin a rookies season. And keeping up the mentoring program is what I think is the most effective way to keep rookies engaged, I know it worked for me and a few other rookies I've had a chat with.
Things like giving rookies better drivers and what not are not really too effective in my opinion because they will still make the same mistakes and mismanage their funds driver and car so I don't see the benefit to giving rookies better drivers, it doesn't guarantee a better time as someone mentioned a good strategy can overcome a good driver.
Just thought I'd give my point of view as someone who is going through the new player process.
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#23 Publicado el 31-May-2023, 04:32:32
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I think the majority of newcomers who instaquit just didn't realize GPRO is a long-term manager game. Nobody who wants instant gratification will stick around for long here. It's been a long time since I was a noob, but I think the Rules, Wiki, and tons of info in the forums are plenty to get you up and running. The mentor program didn't exist when I started, so that's a huge bonus now. Even without a mentor, a lot of managers are happy to give a bit of advice if you ask nicely. My first (and only) team was started by a group of talkative managers who regularly blew up Rookie184 group forum everyday.
Also, don't be too focused on results, because I still manage to have fun with this little game after many years, and I've never even been very good at it. The harder it is to achieve something, the more rewarding it is when you finally do get that promotion.
Just my two cents from somebody who can't even remember what it was like to be a new player. :)
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#24 Publicado el 31-May-2023, 18:22:50
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Quote ( Daniel Bistman @ May 30th 2023,23:23:40 ) I care for this beautiful game, sadly see the super high dropout rate of newcomers.
I'm afraid a game like GPRO is doomed to have a fairly high dropout rate due to its long-term gameplay. But then again, a lot of games actually have a high dropout rate.
This by no means is a justification for not trying to improve the newbie experience, and while I think that the ideas you specifically mentioned in the opening post might not be the optimal way of doing things, but I like your desire to improve things.
Quote ( Stuart Foster @ May 30th 2023,23:51:54 ) I disagree only because the game does a good job of following principally the same structure from top to bottom. Rookie is really only different because of the reset. If the drivers in rookie had bloated OA's, then they would quickly jump to levels that would make them not signable in the future for amateur managers when they go back to the market.
You should think of the game as this large pyramid where if one chink is exaggerated or changed significantly then it will have ramifications up the ladder. Drivers arn't just manufactured. Amateur relies on rookies losing drivers or ditching them in order to develop them further. The same thing in Pro that relies on amateurs losing drivers or ditching them. If the game mechanics are changed at the bottom tier, you would basically wipe out a very large chunk of the driver market in amateur in a not too distant future season.
I think it wouldn't hit the Ama market too hard, maybe only for the first season or 2, until things settle down. And sometimes, a change of the "meta" can be a good thing for a game because it nudges people out of their comfort zones and can give them a new outlook on the game.
Quote ( Max Mutakiwa @ May 31st 2023,02:05:39 ) Hii, as a new player going through my first season, I think that a more in depth tutorial is something that would help rookies 100% and also it is hard for someone to pick up a game and jump into reading wikis (I agree it's something that's important to move forward as a player and must be done, though it's hard to do so in the first few days of starting any game) and all the related material right then and there, most new players will almost always just play untill they find a roadblock then research what they need when they realise they need more imforman, not much else you can do to make them read.
I agree with you a lot, Max. Some players hate reading rules/wikis but respond much better to in-person communication/interactive guides.
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